Has anyone got any further news on this:
http://www.cnmestates.com/portfolio/RedLion.pdf
It's a pdf on the plans for the redevelopment of the old Red Lion pub in Tolworth.
Looks like it's the same firm that built the new flats opposite Surbiton station.
A mix of shops and 69 flats with commercial premises also (including keeping the pub)
Did anyone go to the open day back in November?
Apparently there are plans for a hotel near Tolworth roundabout too.
The benefits of a Surbiton.com account:
Comments
To anyone who is interested CNM Estates have decided to appeal to Bristol by way of a public enquiry regarding the refusal of their development of the Red Lion Pub site. Typically CNM have already amended the plans from those heard and rejected at council meeting, with the full knowledge and presumably acceptance by Kingston planning. Did CNM pay for the the Rose theatre?? Full details on the planning website. Those who objected will get a letter from the council and have to make comments to Bristol by mid October. Is there any chance the public will be listened to or will CNM once again get their way and ruin another part of Surbiton by overdevelopment of a site - 10 houses on the land from one bungalow and a bit of 2 back gardens, plus a replacement pub & shops (will they be needed as 5 have just closed in Tolworth) and around 50 flats on land previously used for 40 plus cars. Surely enough is enough.
The Public Enquiry is on 6 th January 2009 at Kingston The Guildhall 10.00am anyone can attend and speak at the discretion of the Inspector
i HAVE JUST HEARD THAT CNM LOST THEIR APPEAL ON THE RED LION SITE
I agree totally. Apart from anything else, what you have to remember is that the reason for building all of these flats in the last 10 years is that house prices have got so high that people cannot afford anything else. If prices come down by 50%, as a lot of people are now predicting, what happens to all of the flats then?
Worst case is that they all become social housing, and the centre of Kingston (Royal Quarter etc) starts to get the same social mix that you see around Clapham Junction.
To a certain extent, the central part of Surbiton has always had a lot of flats, and the station may mean that people want to keep living here, but areas like Kingston and Tolworth would suffer more.
In the downturn, people will begin to turn to larger houses as they can get more for their money. 20 or so years ago, the Kingston borough would have been one of the premier places to live outside of central London. How far away are we from this crazy planning process turning it into one of the least sought after? Already I hear people sometimes referring to Kingston as a 'sh*thole'. 20 years ago - before I moved to the area- you would never hear that, Kingston was almost universally seen as a 'posh' area, somewhere to aspire to living.
I realise that this has happened in a lot of areas, but Kingston is one that was already quite crowded for it's infrastructure. What the council do not seem to understand is that you cannot double the population density of an area without improving this infrastructure. Kingston was designed as a 'leafy surburb', and much investment will be needed is it is to turn into a city as the developers seem to want.
Does anyone know how to be informed about residents meetings? I live in tolworth/berrylands but never seem to be informed about the development.
It will be interesting to see how CNM change their plans, perhaps a few more advertised public meetings may be a good starting point.
Does anyone know if there is a local residents group campaigning to get a more realistic red lion development? We live nearby and would like to get involved but no idea how.
There is but it may be too late. The decision will be taken tomorrow at the Guildhall at the 7.30 meeting. The residents' committee will be speaking for the 5 minutes allowed. We hope we will be able to convince the members to overturn the council approval. Anyone can turn up
Round 1 to the objectors as the planning application was rejected by the Development Control Committee. Support will be needed for the next stage which may involve an appeal but certainly another planning applicatioj
There are no pubs left in Tolworth now unless you count the Charrington Bowling alley bar.
I think they intend to build a new pub as part of the development. Plus there's always the Broadway Cafe - not a pub though.
I don't live anywhere near London any more but I used to have a dring with my pals in the 1970s there & was very sorry to see it had closed when I visted the area last year.
Regards Mike
does anyone have a link for the new red lion plans? someone said they are on the kingston planning website but i cannot find them!!
would love to see them.
Case number 0810099.
Here's the link:
http://maps.kingston.gov.uk/isis_main/planning/planning_summary.aspx?str...
Otherwise, there's a simple plan on the PDF linked at the top of the page if that's any use?
Surbiton.com webmaster
Your LINK WORKS, but the original link at the top of the page shows the old plans since changed. I have been trying to find out the date for the planning meeting but to no avail. I would like to speak at the meeting, does anyone else because you only get 5 minutes in total for one application so any presentation would need to be co-ordinated?
rEFERENCE 08/10099/FUL RED LION PH, 366 EWELL ROAD, 2 RED LION ROAD & PART OF 6 LENELBY ROAD, SURBITON
Demolition of existing buildings. Redevelopment to provide public house (A4 Use), 3 x ground floor mixed use units (A1/A2/A3) and 61 residential dwellings comprising, 1 x 4-bedroom house, 9 x 3-bedroom houses, 4 x 3-bedroom flats, 18 x 2-bedroom flats and 29 1-bedroom flats with basement parking, access and landscaping. I have been advised that this application has not been withdrawn but that the applicant is intending to submit revised drawings, on which local residents will be re-consulted.
Possible South of the Borough Neighbourhood Committee on 9 July 2008 and Surbiton Committee on 16 July 2008 for Members to give their observations. As these Committees will not be making a decision on the application, it will be possible for any member of the public to speak at these meetings on the planning application.
Development Committee on 23 July 2008 for decision. Any member of the public wishing to speak at this meeting will need to register.
Time to find out what CNM plans are?
I can\t believe that amount of flat building going on in Surbiton. CMN must be greasing someone on the planning department. I had a look at the old post office redevelopment and the build quality is absolutely shocking.
I cant believe Claremont Hall is going to be turned into windowless, storage free rabbit hutches. Going to make my protest.....
Is that actually happening with Claremont Hall? I could not see the planning application approved on the RBK website.
Claremount Hall is up for sale at the moment so no palnning applications are yet in the system but I bet CNM estates buys it!!
I can't understand it. Even the nicer flats in the river roads are not selling in the current market for £350k, so I don't know why CNM think that they can sell flats by the YMCA/Red Lion Road/Alpha Road for more than that!
I read in the local Guardian that there is a residents association to oppose the Red Lion development - anyone know about it as I would like to get involved
Does anyone know if the Church has sold Claremont Hall and if so who too? Will it get knocked down and/or developed into flats?
Claremont Hall has apparently been sold along with the 3 detached houses at 100-104 Maple Road.
The strange thing is that no planning permission exists to build flats on this site. The site on Maple Road have had permission to demolish the houses and build 21 flats in their place.
I personally think that these two developments are a disaster for Surbiton. This area of the town has a fantastic Victorian heritage, which has been somewhat over-run by ugly 1960's and 1970's high density housing. However, the area still retains a certain amount of charm. More high density development is likely to push the area over the edge, as it will contain more blocks of flats than houses.
The buildings that will be demolished are actually 1920's rather than Victorian, but still add something to the feel of the area.
The fact that it is a church doing this is even more galling.
This thread started with the development at the Red Lion Road pub. The new plans are now on the Kingston planning website and have been changed to more art deco but it still looks massive. I hope lots of locals will bother to read the 248 page planning application and make comment as I will be doing.
To the writer of the comments re Maple Road and Claremount Hall I am dispmayed too that what were (before being allowed to get derelict) wonderful houses now have permission to be demolished and a HUGE block of flats put in place. I expect the same fate will happen to Claremount Hall unless people stand up and counted. It does belong to the church.
Unfortunately planning committees have to look at each application on its merit to make a decision. However somebody should be looking at the total amount of redevelopment going on, especially where CNM Estates are concerned. Not only have they developed the Plaza, they have taken over 2a Ellerton Road (23 flats and shops, work not started) off the Ewell Road, and in spite of known flood risks , the proposed development in place of the Red Lion Pub on the EweLL Road (61 units mix of houses and flats, a pub and shops) and I read that they have submitted an application for a 105 bedroom hotel next to Tolworth station which will then be opposite the TESCO site (850 units?? etc) Can the A3 and the Ewell Road cope with all this extra traffic let alone the additional water and sewerage needs.
I am gagging for some new modern flats/homes in Tolworth. flats opposite alexandra park, main transport links, 15 mins from kingston, 10 mins from surbiton! its a dream!
BRING IT ON,
however they change the existing plans cause they were ugly. love the idea of a bar aswell!
If you are interested in commenting on this development go to the Kingston Planning website. The details for the 61 dwellings, pub and shops will soon be their.
I am looking forward to this new development. I really hope it goes ahead. Tolworth needs to be woken up and revitalised.
This sounds as if this has been written by the Developers, as have half the other supporters for this load of architectural money making rubbish, forget the locals eh!..
UPDATE on Red Lion - From Savills.
I can confirm that no planning application has been submitted for the Red Lion Public House site as yet. We are currently in the process of reworking the proposals following public consultation in November last year. There is no set date for submission at the moment and as such development is unlikely to commence this Spring.
When an application is submitted a notice will be raised on site and the Council will issue notices to residents they deem to be affected by the proposals. You will be able to access all the details of the application either on the Council's planning web pages or at their offices.
In answer to 21 Century life. new build can be fine but the extent of new build in the Tolworth/Ewell area could have a serious consequence on the very old Victorian infrastructure, sewers, water pipes, gas etc. Underground parking for 69 flats/houses but what about the additional cars of visitors, shop and pub customers. At least with the old pub half the land was was car parking. This pub sits on a very busy junction.
The proposed development of the Red Lion Public House
Who was invited to the Public Consultation as I live just up the road and was not.
This development is massive and totally out of character for the Ewell Road. Look at the height, it would be considerably higher than any residental properties on the Ewell Road and Red Lion Road.
Underground parking, more soil removed and along with the development at 2a Ellerton Road with underground parking on a flood risk area what is to become of the infrastructure on the Ewell Road.
Enough is enough, lets hope lots of residents are prepared to stand up and be counted at any planning meetings.
Ewell Road resident
In reply to the height issue:
Storey heights complementary to Ewell Road to match existing buildings and reduction of scale to match the residential
character of Red Lion Road.
Also most of the shop fronts along that parade are shocking. Apart from Budgens what else has had a spruce up in the last 10 years??!!
I don't see it being such a bad idea personally, I too am a local resident and I think it's about time some 21st Century LIFE came into the area. The area lacks investment and surely this proposal is not such a bad thing.
What is it that we're really scared of??
I have just been on the CNM website and they appear to be operating all over the place. They state this about the Red Lion Pub site
"Bought unconditionally, this mixed-use development will replace the existing public house and provide 69 residential units and commercial floor space. Advanced design and construction techniques will ensure a sustainable, attractive and eco-friendly development."
How can they say this when to date a planning application has not been put into the system. They also bought unconditionally the 2a Ellerton Road site. They were not the people getting the planning permisson that was Grayswood. Ellerton Road 23 flats and shops only got planning permission on a second application by one vote even though the reasons for refusal were still the same. Some of the conditions set for the build involve having a flood evacuation plan and other conditions set to do with flooding because of the underground parking on flood risk 2/3
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